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Post by lurkergirl on Mar 7, 2005 16:44:16 GMT -5
Hello just dropping by... About the DNA... I'm a Court TV aholic... and recently in Cold Cases they said that once you put the garbage outside by the curb it was legal to anyone, including Police to retrieve it and search it... including searching for possible DNA.... I can't remember what case it was, but it was a cold case that it was resolved by the Investigators after retrieving someone's garbage... they took used q-tips, hair, kleenexs, toilet paper and so on... from that they were able to identify the suspect and finally matched him to the DNA from the scene.
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 7, 2005 18:07:18 GMT -5
Yep, if it's outside in the garbage LE can and have gotten things that they have been able to run a DNA test on to get information that they need in a crime, and thanks because I had forgotten that.
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 11, 2005 15:15:54 GMT -5
I've been doing some research this fine day, on Judo and Karate courses that were being offered back in the 70's in Wichita, came up with some interesting things. Could this be how Joe Otero was taken down so easily?
Roger Carpenter, a black belt student of George Pesare, came to Wichita, Kans., in Sept. 1963. Carpenter taught karate for two years at churches, YMCAs, and a National Guard Armory. In the spring of 1965, he opened the first commercial karate school in Wichita.
Grandmaster Roger Carpenter
Grandmaster Carpenter's 9th Degree Black Belt is the first Black Belt and "First Knight" to have been awarded his black Belt from the parent institute. Using the disciplines and knowledge he mastered from the Institute in Rhode Island, Mr. Carpenter founded the Kansas Karate Institute in Wichita, Kansas. Roger is the Training Officer and Range Master for the Sedgwick County Sheriffs Department. Mr. Carpenter's fighting record is unique:
Rhode Island Undisputed State Black Belt Champion
New England Grand Black Belt Champion
Kansas State Champion
3 time All American Champion
Mr. Wigal is a 7th Degree Black Belt and has been Kansas Karate's competitive superstar winning in full contact karate matches and the Kansas Triple Crown in 1992. David has an Electrical Engineering Degree from Wichita State University, and an Emergency Medical Technician Certification. David has also served as a U.S. Marshall's assistant. David is a FAA Coordinator with FlightSaftey International. He works with the Federal Aviation Administration to keep his company's flight simulators, for Cessna business jets, up to Certified standards. David is a Certified Instructor in Mike Inay's system of Eskrima for knife Defense, Sinawali/Dequerdas, pressure points, and baton systems.
Fight Turns into a Slaughter
In Wichita Kansas in 1973 Roger Carpenter battled John Bal'ee. This bout started off under the agreed upon rules but soon developed into a full fledged street fight in the ring. Bal'ee was cut across the face and most Boxing and Kickboxing matches would have called the fight but not here. The bout had to go to knockout. Carpenter elbowed his foe in the face further opening the gash and then continually kneed his foe in the face. A knee sent Bal'ee through the ropes and referee Jim Harrison did not start counting until Bal'ee was back in the ring. This happened several times. 3000 nauseated spectators witnessed the bout which turned out to be a slaughter. The referee asked Bal'ee if he could continue and he barely nodded no. The fight was stopped and Bal'ee was taken to the hospital by ambulance.
Recently, Mr. Pesare was voted into the New England Black Belt Hall of Fame. "A student that has trained in Kenpo Karate in New England was either taught by Mr. Pesare or one of his pupils, or one of his pupils' pupil ............."
In the world of realistic self defense, George Pesare has been a law enforcement officer for over 20 years. During his tenure with the Providence Sheriffs Department, he served as Training Officer and Range Master. During his tenure with the Kent County Sheriffs department, he also served as Training Officer and Range Master, teaching all aspects of firearms to Federal, State, and municipal agencies. Mr. Pesare is the coordinator of the National Rifle Associations' Annual Police Pistol Regional Championships. He is also a member of the coveted '1490' club. He is the 1994 Rhode Island State Police Pistol Champion, and is the Police Pistol Champion of the Prestigious Police Pistol Governors Twenty. Mr. Pesare is also the President and Rhode Island Match Director of the Rhode Island Police Pistol Combat League.
Is it possible that Joe Otero had never gotten his broken ribs from the car accident? Charlie Otero has said that he doesn't remember his father saying that he had broken ribs from this accident. Is it possibly that the blow to Joe's ribs happened at the scene of the murder? Could a Judo or Karate move have been the cause of those broken ribs? That would certainly incapacitate someone in a hurry. I'm also not implying that the men above had anything to do with Joe Otero's family being killed, but I'd like to know who else took lessons back in Wichita at the same places that these men taught. Also, note that in the one instance, Carpenter gave instructions at an Armory in Wichita. Could that Armory have been the one across the street from the Otero's? Could it have served as a DMV and an Armory at the same time?
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 12, 2005 12:09:52 GMT -5
I'm still having a very difficult time just allowing the Otero murders to drop. I say this for many reasons. Mostly because they were the first murders and second because I think that we should be able to look at all the murders from this point on, to get a feel for who the man was that caused all this distruction.
The only problem is, that I can't see any rhyme or reason that these murders took place. It's really because of Joe Otero's actions before the murders.
We have a man who came from another country, who had been in Panama, who had been born in Puerto Rico, who had lived in New York and New Jersey. He was a large man, he was a champion boxer, he was a commando in the Air Force, he was a candy store owner that used his store as a triage for the wounded in the 1967 race riots in Camden, NJ.
He was also a man who was very scared of something. When there was a blackout in Wichita, he had the family hide inside a closet until he could see if it was just his home that had no lights or if it was the entire block. He had EVERYONE in the family look before they opened the door to a caller. He also spoke to someone on the phone one day, and said that he thought perhaps he should tell someone what he had been doing, which leads me to wonder what it was that he had been doing that would have him so concerned for the safety of his family.
What are the odds of a man who was that worried, almost to the point of hysteria, finally being killed along with almost his entire family by a random killer? I think the odds of that happening would be rather small.
And yet we have a man, who had been in a car accident a week or two before, a man who never took the older kids to school, but did so on this day because he had a meeting to go to later, and so he thought that he would do that, come home to a serial killer inside his home, who had tied up his wife and two younger children and overtook him, by some means that we can't understand, being a champian boxer and a martial arts man, and a former commando.
More to come>>>
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 12, 2005 15:46:02 GMT -5
I enter into this testimony with a sane mind. I find that I must write this because at this point in my life, I've been delving into issues that could come under attack by those who would attempt to do me physical harm, or do my loved ones physical harm. Those people who are my loved ones are:
6 people are listed here, but I won't list them in public.
I want them to be named because if anything other than natural deaths should occur I would like it to be documented here on this date, March 12, 2005 at 2:17PM eastern standard time in XXXXX, XX.
I have been working on the BTK case, in Sedgewick County, Kansas. I've come to realize that the man that Law Enforcement has in custody for the murders of 10 people in Wichita, might not be the real killer.
Dennis Rader is a pawn in a much larger picture.
These are the murders:
Joseph Otero, Sr. Julie Otero Joseph Otero, Jr. Josephine Otero Shirley Vian Nancy Fox Vickie Wegerle Kathryn Bright Deloris Davis Marine Hedge
Other Possibilities: Nov. 12, 1974: Sherry Baker, 23, a Wichita State University student, was found stabbed to death in her apartment at 603 New York. Her hands were tied behind her back with a coiled telephone cord, and she was stabbed with a pair of scissors. There was no sign of forced entry.
June 29, 1985: Linda Shawn Casey, 31, another WSU student, was found dead on the bedroom floor of her home at 356 N. Spruce. She had been bound, beaten, sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly.
Nov. 12, 1999: Tina Frederick, 22, was found shot to death in her apartment at 888 S. Hydraulic, a few blocks from the home of Shirley Vian, one of BTK's known victims. Frederick's clothed body was lying on a bedroom floor.
The other 12 cases in chronological order:
Nov. 26, 1977: Denise Rathbun, 26, a mother of two, was last seen pushing a baby carriage full of wet laundry to a coin-operated laundry at Central and Edgemoor. Her body was found two weeks later in a frozen creek in Harvey County. An autopsy showed she had died of drowning and exposure.
Oct. 25, 1980: Barbara A. Smith, 37, was found beaten to death in her home at 1151 S. Waverly. There was no sign of forced entry. The killer set two small fires in the kitchen that burned themselves out.
June 6, 1987: Hattie Smith, 54, was found dead by her husband when he returned to the couple's home at 3193 S. Clifton. Her nude body was bound hand and foot with materials that came from the house. Police said she was beaten, strangled and drowned in the bathtub. There were no signs of forced entry.
Oct. 31, 1987: Shannon Olson, 15, left her home in the 1100 block of South Hydraulic shortly after 11 p.m., saying she was going to run an errand. Two fishermen found her nude body floating in an old sand pit at 33rd and Hillside the next day. Her hands were tied behind her back with her bra.
Oct. 2, 1989: Krista Martin, 20, was found beaten to death on the couch in her apartment at 506 E. Osage. The 1987 Campus High School graduate had been struck in the back of the head with a blunt object.
Aug. 16, 1993: Kristi Hatfield, 25, was found dead in a field in the 300 block of East 36th Street South after [leaving ]her South Broadway house to run an errand. She died from a blow to the back of the head. Sept. 12, 1996: Cherie Fox, 16, was found shot to death in an apartment she shared with her father at 2150 N. Meridian.
Oct. 30, 1996: Avanthea Williams, 20, was found dead in an empty apartment building at 10th and Minnesota. Her body was thought to have been in the building for two months.
May 11, 1997: Deanna Law, 53, was found strangled in her home at 1423 S. Market. She was sexually assaulted, and her nude body was found in the bathtub. A neighbor was charged with second-degree murder, but the charge was dropped after his lawyer contended that he faked the confession.
June 4, 2002: Dorothy Slaughter, 86, was beaten along with her husband at their home in the 2000 block of South Pershing Avenue. She died two weeks later; her husband survived the attack. Neighbors became suspicious after noticing that a boarded-up basement window had been opened, and that the Slaughters' side door was ajar. Relatives said the phone line was cut and the only thing missing was a set of car keys.
I'm documenting all of the things that I'm finding thus far in my research of possibilities, just in case something should happen to me during this time. I will also be documenting any strange calls recieved here at my home, and any vehicles that are out of the ordinary in my neighborhood from now on. I will continue to update this as the days progress.
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 12, 2005 18:22:09 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]ScottStap to me on AMW[/glow] Mystic. You have to believe me. The email you sent to me was my ScottStapp email!
Also, I have had a full report in the possession of my attorney now for about a month! It's labeled "open in the event of my untimely demise."
In those documents is MORE than enough proof to implicate some of the MAJOR PLAYERS!
I know people think I'm insane here. Probably LE thinks so. Yet, the interesting thing is this, I have actually ASSISTED the LE on other cases.
I think you should know this Mystic.
I was a "witness" of sorts in the Oakland County Child Killer investigations!
I was born in Oakland County! I was raised in Oakland and Livingston Counties.
(I lived for a while in 313 also).
Several of my relatives and thier friends were UP TO THEIR NECKS DEEP in what was going on up there in Oakland County! In fact, I implicated a MAJOR CORPORATION as being involved.
The scenario was EXACT to what went on in Kansas!
I don't think the players were the same, just the "game."
I could tell you experiences I had as a child that would raise the hair on the back of your head.
Satan has siezed control of Christianity. Only a BLIND person could not see this!
The CULTISTS are those who are teaching your children in Sunday School!
The only way to survive their plans is to separate yourself from them.
Now, my wife, and a few people on this board have convinced that my approach has been "over the top" in my effort to "separate" myself from them. I was going too far by saying "I'm not a Christian."
I will say this, IF the title Christ can be applied to the Son of God, and indeed he who follows the Son of God is a follower of "Christ," and called a Christian, then, I was mistaken tellling people "I am not a Christian."
If being a Christian is following in the footsteps of the Son of God, then, not only am I a Christian, I am a FANATICAL CHRISTIAN.
Yet, when the world hears "Christian" they think of a religious phony who doesn't even understand their own teachings. They think of someone who has no qualms about KILLING in the name of Jesus!
That I cannot abide.
Jesus said "there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed."
BTK didn't get away with it, thanks to modern technology.
As I've said all along, BTK is only the beginning and the tip of the iceburg.
Anyone who wants to claim to follow the Son of God and lives in evil and wickedness is going to be likewise exposed. God is going to use the LE of this world for that very purpose!
Whew! I'm rambling again. Sorry!
"The free access to information is the cornerstone of all Democracy."
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 12, 2005 18:24:40 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]My reply back to him[/glow] I didn't send the email to ScottStap, I sent it to someone else. And if you're not him, he should have gotten the email by now, either that or he's also not collecting email from his normal account.
AND, my God, on the Oakland County thing. Now I know much more than I ever wanted to know.
You said I was chosen, or that God has a plan for me, so just maybe this is it. And if so then, so be it, I'm ready.
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Post by LadyBlue on Mar 12, 2005 18:51:50 GMT -5
It's taken me this long to recover my thoughts as I go thru the Otero murder, and it's possible implications of some kind of organization that Joe Otero either belonged to, or knew about that caused his family to be killed. I'm not sure what organiztion that would have been because at the time that they moved into the home on Edgemoor, I'm not aware that they had any church connections yet. And I don't know what church connections they might have had in Camden, New Jersey.
I would expect as good a family as Charlie says that they were, they would have had to have some church affiliations, most probably the Catholic faith. Since I'm not sure where in Camden they lived, I wouldn't have any way of knowing which church they would have attended.
I've also done some research on possible mob ties in Camden NJ and surrounding towns. There was alot going on in 1967 and one of them was mobsters coming in to businesses and asking for pay offs which could have led Joe to want to move his family out of NJ just as fast as he could, and move as far away from there as humanly possible. The only problem was, he moved them to another town which was also embedded with it's own share of violence, rioting, and war protesters.
Somewhere during the time that he lived in Camden, he definately met up with the wrong calibur of people and whoever it was that felt he did them wrong, followed he and his family to Wichita, Kansas. They had to have laid in wait for just the right opportunity to strike. Perhaps they felt they had chosen the right time, perhaps they didn't expect Joe to come back home that day, but instead wanted him to only find his wife dead. Instead he walks in on it, and is also overtaken, and now even more I believe these acts were done by more than just one person.
There would have to have been more than just one person, because in this situation, Joe was much too easily overtaken, and there is just no good explaination for how that happened. Even if BTK had gotten there to the home and found three people instead of just one, he would have had to convince Julie to tie up the children, thinking that they would be safe that way. But that doesn't take away from the fact, that when Julie heard Joe enter the home, that she couldn't have yelled out for him.
Yes, she could have been being held down or choked by something, so that she couldn't yell out anything to Joe, but there just had to be someway that Joe was so easily taken down, as not to even have had a chance to fight back. He was also choked to almost death and then was untied and made to write something, which has always led me to believe, that he was made to write that he had killed the family. But then that wouldn't make sense either, or he couldn't have choked himself to death or tied himself up the way he was found.
I still have alot more thinking to do on this, but will leave it here for now.
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Post by Tony B on Oct 1, 2021 13:23:04 GMT -5
BTK did not kill Melissa Scott. She died from an asthma attack during the night. She was a severe asthmatic.
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