My Take On A Few Things

[LadyBlue]

To me as I read all this, he's someone who was in that generation, or at least close to it. Someone who never made it big, someone who could have dropped out of college, and never made much of his life. Having meaningless jobs, or so he thought. He wasn't a poet, so he took from other poets, all but one, and that was the one to Anna. He's raging against society. He's raging against families, and against women. And somehow there are drug connections in this.

[LadyBlue]

Then somewhere in his writings, all of them, even in the puzzles, lies his identity. How do we find him. That's the question. So I'm going to start with this puzzle, the long puzzle, and the words on it and see where that goes.

prowl--stalk--watch

gags--as in bound--to fool or play trick on

realtor--someone in authority of home sales

insurance--something that society needs today

serviceman--someone who is in the military--someone who works for a service co

telephone co--keeps us all connected

fantasies--fetishes--sexuality

follow--stalk--prowl

anderson--?

address--place where we live--place where others live--speach--or to speak

spot--can be a location--to spot someone--something dirty that needs to be removed

victim--person hurt or bothered by someone--or victim of circumstance

details--important things--things to concentrate on

ig--Inspector General--disipline

builds--something grows

officer--someone in athority

vise--A moral fault or failing; especially, immoral conduct or habit, as in the indulgence of degrading appetites; customary deviation in a single respect, or in general, from a right standard, implying a defect of natural character, or the result of training and habits; a harmful custom; immorality; depravity; wickedness; as, a life of vice; the vice of intemperance.

help--as in need of--as in lending assistance

igotforit--engineering term--someone moves forward

sold--homes are sold--items are sold--ideas are sold

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]BTK sent this error-riddled poem in June 1979[/glow]
Oh, Anna Why Didn't You Appear

T' was perfect plan of deviant pleasure so bold on that Spring nite My inner felling hot with propension of the new awakening season

Propension: words in the definition
Being, Of, Or, Propense, Propensity, Quality, State, The,
en.thinkexist.com/dictionary/meaning/Propension/
Warn, wet with inner fear and rapture, my pleasure of entanglement, like new vines at night

Oh, Anna, Why Didn't You Appear Drop of fear fresh Spring rain would roll down from your nakedness to scent to lofty fever that burns within,

In that small world of longing, fear, rapture, and desparation, the game we play, fall on devil ears Fantasy spring forth, mounts, to storm fury, then winter clam at the end.

Oh, Anna Why Didn't You Appear Alone, now in another time span I lay with sweet enrapture garments across most private thought

Bed of Spring moist grass, clean before the sun, enslaved with control, warm wind scenting the air, sun light sparkle tears in eyes so deep and clear.

Alone again I trod in pass memory of mirrors, and ponder why for number eight was not.

Oh, Anna Why Didn't You Appear

[LadyBlue]

This is how I think BTK could have gotten his knowledge of how police agencies work and how he seems to know so much and sound so professional at times:

Many regular officers of the Wichita Police Department were called to military duty. In order to compensate for the loss of officers, the Police Department called upon civilian volunteers to perform general police duties. On September 1, 1942, 1,063 Auxiliary Police Officers were sworn in and given arm bands. In May of 1957 the Wichita Civil Defense Auxiliary members were sworn in as active Reserve Officers. The name of the unit was changed to the and the unit was placed under the command and control of the Police Chief. Police Reserves received full police powers on December 18, 1958.

Today the Wichita Police Department's Reserve Unit falls under the Support Services Division, Special Operations Bureau. The non-paying position of Reserve Police Officer is one of the most rewarding opportunities for concerned citizens, because it provides genuine service to all of our citizens. Reserve Police Officers are fully commissioned law enforcement officers and are required to work a minimum of twenty hours a month.

Responsibilities of Reserve Officers include patrol, traffic enforcement and many other support functions.
The Reserve Training Academy is 14 weeks and is held in the evening Monday through Friday. Recruit Officers receive training in such areas as:

Legal Aspects of Law Enforcement
Defense Tactics and Control Techniques
Criminal Investigation
Response to Community Problems and
Effective Patrol Services

Applicants must be at least 21 years old and be a High School Graduate or have a G.E.D. Certificate. Applicants must be a citizen of the United States and be of good moral character with no felony convictions, morals charges or crimes of violence. There are no minimal height requirements however weight must be proportional to height. Applicants must pass a physical and be able to pass a physical agility test. Eyesight must be correctable to 20/30 and persons with color blindness will be disqualified. All applicants must possess a valid Kansas Drivers License. Eligible applicants must undergo psychological testing and a polygraph examination. References are checked in addition to credit and criminal reports.

[oldlady]

mysticangel, First of all I felt a little better about posting on your site to say what I needed to say.My spelling is not to good and didnt want to get bashed on the other sites about it... First of all I lived in Wichita during the Btk murders between Rose Hill and Derby and at the time I was receiving obcene phone calls from a man But a very smart man, He was in perfect control from start to finish, (Example) Phone rang I said HELLO and HE Said Do you want me to come over there and kill you and your daughter, I SAID my god no And he said then dont hang up till I finish, It took me a minute to understand what he meant but then I realized he was masturbating, he told me to keep talking and I ask dirty?? and he said didnt matter just let him finish.. That was the first of many calls all most every day except when my husband was home he never called.My husband stayed home from work several days and no calls but the day he went back to work he called again. HE called me by my name, knew I had a white housecoat(wore it out to mail box) so he must have been watching me..I talked to this man for almost a month and I remember his voice to this day , Always in control, demanding, and I was terrified. I can say it sounded very much like the BTK recording Sometimes tho he spoke in short choppy words, to the point. My sister in law was staying with me at the time and a salesman came to my door, I gave her a gun and told her to stay behind the curtian while he was there,He had some books in a big bag but they looked used, they were childrens books,bible,and a dictionary,which Ithought very odd . He was very tall, blond, short hair, Glasses about 22 to 25 , drove a small car,dirty sort of orange color... When he left I called the better bus. to see if he was reallya sales man they said he had no licence and the did not know of any salesman in the area, so I called the police..(I hope im not boring you to death)They told me to not answer my door to anyone and lock it up.There would be two officers and they would prove who they were when they got there..told them my story and about the calls, they wrote everythig down. They watched my house for several weeks and that was it..Now the man that called me said DONT WORRY LADY IM NOT THE BTK MAN<<The salesman said the very same thing to me. I moved shortly after that. Its been so many years have forgot somethings but I belive I might have given his tag no to the police.My questio is to you think any of this could be important enough to look up old police files or do they throw stuff like this away?? If you think this could help please feel free to post it on AMW If not please delete it.I have an idea maybe BYK entertained him self by making phone calls to women and Masturbating saving his semen for the murders..Would like to know if other women received any calls like that during that time. Im sorry this is so long ,have given this some thought and decided I should tell someone. Will watch for your post on AMW if you think it is impotant enough.. thank you for reading this.

[LadyBlue]

My gosh you poor woman, I would say that you should definately have turned all of that information into the police in Wichita. Tell me if you're still here and if not I'll post it in AMW, but, this man, did he in anyway resemble any of the composite photos of BTK the way he was discribed back in the 70's? If you don't remember seeing any of those photo's then I will post some here, but I'd like you to try to remember his face and try to discribe just the face and his hair to me if you're able to.

[oldlady]

Mysticangel, Its been a lot of years but the best I remember He had short blond(brownish) hair, Glasses, Tall , I would guess 6 foot but Im only 5foot 3 .There is one picture somewhere that looks a little like him,(on the net) The one of a young man wearing glasses, but cant remember where I saw it. Back in my younger day he would be what I would have called NERD looking, Light complected, seems he had blue eyes..Boy,I hope im getting this right cause so many years fades ones memory, but his voice is unforgetable. He had a slender face ,The salesman was soft spoken and only said a few words,Like Im selling books but I was so scared I said dont want any and closed the door.

[oldlady]

Oh yes I do remember one thing, the salesman did say Dont worry Im not the BTK man and the police were very interested he said( MAN)have no idea why. In the sketch I was refering to ,I think my salesman looked a little older and a little fuller lips...I know this is silly but I remember thinking he could be a part time mortician, just an impression I got from his appearance. He did have on tan pants and it seemed as tho there was some junk in the back of his car like laundry or blankets Im sorry just cant remember for sure. As I said ones memory fades with time. Hope I have helped some,My family is not crazy about me doing this...

[LadyBlue]

Well I do thank you for trying to remember those things that you were able to. I don't know if it will help but it will at least be recorded here if anyone from LE should need to read it. And, I can understand how your family would feel, but, sometimes we have just got to do things that our families don't like, if only for our own piece of mind, and it seems like this monster has invaded the hearts and minds of so many people for 31 years, and it's continuing. What a sad thing. He need to be caught, and soon before he ruins another entire generation of children.

[oldlady]

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my posts,
oldlady

[LadyBlue]

Oh you're very welcome, if you should think of anything else just feel free to post it, not a problem at all.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]A Valley Center woman was found dead [/glow]
A Valley Center woman was found dead Monday morning in her home at 409 E. Main.

Valley Center police responded to a 911 call with information that a boy had found his mother unconscious. Police reached the home and attempted to treat Melissa Scott, 27, with CPR before EMS personnel arrived.

Scott later was pronounced dead at the scene. Her four children, ranging in age from 3 to 10, also were present. Her roommate was not at home.

Sgt. Lloyd Newman of the Valley Center Police Department said the woman had lived in Valley Center a short time. He declined to comment on the nature of her injuries.

“The cause of death is pending on autopsy results,” said Newman.

He added that he expects to receive results in six to eight weeks. Newman declined to comment about whether Scott’s death was suspicious, but he said rumors that it was related to the serial killer BTK were untrue.

The emergency call was received about 9:30 a.m. Monday. Newman said the four children are with other family members.

The case is under investigation.

[glow=red,2,300]Valley Center police reports[/glow]
March 9--2:27 p.m. Compliance Officer Cindy Plant impounded a stray silver and gray male husky at 409 E. Main.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]The Puzzle[/glow]
I've looked once again at the puzzle that was sent by Dennis Rader to KAKE awhile ago, and some of the words now make sense to me. I'm going to list things now that I see, that I didn't see or know before, and the things that I question yet, I'll just leave the word that was on the puzzle.

Realtor

Insurance

Serviceman--Military

Two

Prowl--Keep eyes peeled for the prey

MO--Method Of Operation

Cruise--Enjoying the sights

Fantasies--Fetishes

Telephone CO--Southwestern Bell--ADT

Address--I think this and wrong were suppose to be together

Anderson

Follow--Stalking the prey

Spot--Spot the prey

Victim--The prey

Details--The planning of the kill

Help--The monster is worried and wants help

Vise--The noose tightens--stranglings

Officer--Office held President of the Christ Luthern Church

Builds--Agression, Control

Sold--ADT Security Systems Sold by Dennis

Igoforit

Odds--Will he get caught, won't he get caught

Leo--Law Enforcement Officer

Plan--Make sure everything is in order before executing it

Steam--Once the plan is in motion, the boiler inside is burning and building

Larry--Hattenberg

School

Poet

Wichita--Town

Ruse--Trickery

Remodel

Fake ID--Badges

Wrong

Handyman--Man of all trades

[lurkergirl]

So, Melissa Scott is the Melissa mentioned by Jack?

www.arkvalleynews.com/web/isite.dll?1108066942359

Is she the same one?

[lurkergirl]

Mystic, do you keep in contact with "oldlady"? Any information regarding her experience and D.R.?

[LadyBlue]

Yes Melissa Scott is the same Melissa Scott that was murdered in Kansas, and yes that's who Jack had been talking about. And no, Oldlady hasn't been back since Dennis Rader was named as BTK, so I don't know her thoughts on this. I do wish she would come back to let us all know what her thinking is on it, if he was the same person at she saw or he wasn't. It would be interesting to find that out.

[oldlady]

Mysticangel, It was not D R at my door He may have been my caller, who knows?? In fact I found the picture of the guy he looked more like today on AMW (Sandys composites) That was the one I mentioned to you, He turned out to be Zodiac in Calif. So Maybe Im a nut magnet and just draw them. lol Two in one month.
Still im a little baffled D R pulled everything off by him self . but I think Im alone in maybe thinking this My nut was tall and blond and wore glasses.

[LadyBlue]

Ok, was just wondering...lol. Take care and you may stop back any time.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]All The Murders & Other Possibilities[/glow]

These occured when he worked for ADT

Otero Murders:

The coroner determined that all four murders occurred well before noon and very likely around 8 or nine in the morning. Police theorized that while Joseph Otero was driving the older three children to school that the murderer gained entry into the house where Julie and her two younger children were by themselves. Once the killer subdued and bound the three of them, he waited for Joseph to come home to take the younger two children to school and caught him by surprise.
The killer hung around for about an hour an a half, then took the Otero family car and left it parked near Dillons grocery not far away.

Kathryn Bright

April 4, 1974, just three months after the Otero murders, Kathryn Bright, 20, and her brother Kevin, 19, went to her home at 3217 E. 13th Street at approximately 1 p.m. There was an intruder hiding in the house, waiting for her to return.
The intruder told them he needed money and a car to escape from the California police.

Shirley Vian

March 17, 1977, Wichita police were dispatched to 1311 South Hydraulic Street. Upon arrival, police entered the home and discovered 26-year-old Shirley Vian dead.
The incident occurred during the daytime and there was no sign of forced entry. The killer had stopped one of the victim's sons on the street that morning, and showed him photographs of a woman and child, purportedly seeking directions to their home.

Nancy Fox

Dec. 8, 1977, BTK placed a call to the emergency hotline "Go to this address," he told an emergency dispatcher, "You will find a homicide - Nancy Fox." Investigators were able to quickly trace the call to a downtown phone booth, where witnesses indistinctly recalled a blond man, approximately six feet tall, using the phone booth moments earlier.

Following the caller's instructions, officers rushed to 843 S. Pershing. Upon arrival, investigators immediately noticed that a window had been broken, allowing entry to the home. Upon entering the apartment house, officers discovered 25-year-old Nancy Jo Fox dead in her bedroom, a nylon stocking twisted around her neck.

Unlike previous victims, she was fully clothed.
The murder had occurred at night, semen was found at the scene, but an autopsy later revealed that Fox had not been sexually assaulted.

As abruptly as they started, the killings appeared to have ended in 1977. It seemed as though BTK had vanished. But we know now that he didn't vanish, so who did he kill in the interum?

Nov. 12, 1974: Sherry Baker, 23, a Wichita State University student, was found stabbed to death in her apartment at 603 New York. Her hands were tied behind her back with a coiled telephone cord, and she was stabbed with a pair of scissors. There was no sign of forced entry.

Police have said a copy of a BTK letter came from a copy machine at WSU.

Nov. 26, 1977: Denise Rathbun, 26, a mother of two, was last seen pushing a baby carriage full of wet laundry to a coin-operated laundry at Central and Edgemoor. Her body was found two weeks later in a frozen creek in Harvey County. An autopsy showed she had died of drowning and exposure?

These all happened when he was working in Park City as a Compliance Officer.

Oct. 25, 1980: Barbara A. Smith, 37, was found beaten to death in her home at 1151 S. Waverly. There was no sign of forced entry. The killer set two small fires in the kitchen that burned themselves out?

[glow=red,2,300]April 27, 1985: Marine Hedge
[/glow]

June 29, 1985: Linda Shawn Casey, 31, another WSU student, was found dead on the bedroom floor of her home at 356 N. Spruce. She had been bound, beaten, sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly?

June 6, 1987: Hattie Smith, 54, was found dead by her husband when he returned to the couple's home at 3193 S. Clifton. Her nude body was bound hand and foot with materials that came from the house. Police said she was beaten, strangled and drowned in the bathtub. There were no signs of forced entry?

Oct. 31, 1987: Shannon Olson, 15, left her home in the 1100 block of South Hydraulic shortly after 11 p.m., saying she was going to run an errand. Two fishermen found her nude body floating in an old sand pit at 33rd and Hillside the next day. Her hands were tied behind her back with her bra?

Oct. 2, 1989: Krista Martin, 20, was found beaten to death on the couch in her apartment at 506 E. Osage. The 1987 Campus High School graduate had been struck in the back of the head with a blunt object?

[glow=red,2,300]Jan. 19, 1991: Delores "Dee" Davis
[/glow]

Aug. 16, 1993: Kristi Hatfield, 25, was found dead in a field in the 300 block of East 36th Street South after [leaving ]her South Broadway house to run an errand. She died from a blow to the back of the head?

Sept. 12, 1996: Cherie Fox, 16, was found shot to death in an apartment she shared with her father at 2150 N. Meridian?

Oct. 30, 1996: Avanthea Williams, 20, was found dead in an empty apartment building at 10th and Minnesota. Her body was thought to have been in the building for two months?

May 11, 1997: Deanna Law, 53, was found strangled in her home at 1423 S. Market. She was sexually assaulted, and her nude body was found in the bathtub. A neighbor was charged with second-degree murder, but the charge was dropped after his lawyer contended that he faked the confession?

June 4, 2002: Dorothy Slaughter, 86, was beaten along with her husband at their home in the 2000 block of South Pershing Avenue. She died two weeks later; her husband survived the attack. Neighbors became suspicious after noticing that a boarded-up basement window had been opened, and that the Slaughters' side door was ajar. Relatives said the phone line was cut and the only thing missing was a set of car keys?

[jimamw]

I find it odd that oldlady's description is the same as the firemans that saw him at the phone booth.I'm thinking there are 2 people in on this somehow.
Fireman said blond hair tall light complected.
How could that be?
This whol;e thing about him walking away from a body drop is ridiculous!Someone else has to be in this,no?
Doubt if it is a brother they would have same build and complextion as him prolly.

[LadyBlue]

Actually I thought about that one too Jim, and she may have met someone that he knew, this guy she saw was selling books, out of his vehicle, but he was blonde, and that is the discription given by the two people who saw him at that phone booth, so I guess time will tell. It is strange though huh?

[oldady]

Well Im back, Just cant seem to give up on my caller, Thought I would run this by you, I read a Obit for D R's father stating he had a brother that lived in Grove Okla and it dawned on me my parents had a home on the lake there; my husband and I visted many times and fished off their dock, We talked to many fishermen going by and stopping to talk, Sence D R was such a sportsman do you think he maybe visted his uncle at sometime and someone in my family said HI, were from Wichita ,Bla bla bla And that could be where my phone calls started, Its a long shot I know. But maybe LE should check some cold cases there. Again thanks for reading my posts

[LadyBlue]

Actually I'm inclined to think that Oklahoma, and Colorado and a few other states need to do a review of their cold cases that fit the MO of Dennis Rader. I just don't think that he kept his murders in Kansas. And you're welcome to come here and ask any questions that you choose to, not a problem.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]Something Isn't Right[/glow]
I'm including my thoughts on the case against Dennis Rader, because I honestly feel that there are some major questions about Dennis that aren't adding up to him being BTK.

Dennis Rader has read many books as we all know, and has extensive knowledge about Law Enforcement because it was what he studied in College. How is it, that a floppy disc took this knowledgeable man down? He had to know all the ins and outs of the investigation of any crime having to do with a computer. This has been wide spread news now for years, that when a crime is committed, or someone is missing, the first thing LE does is go in and take the persons computer and throughly search thru their hard drive to find vital information. It's also widly known that even when a hard drive is wiped clean, a sort of fingerprint is left, and anything that was deleted, can be pulled up and read by the investigators. So did Dennis Rader have a moment of stupid when he used a wiped floppy disc from the church? Or was he set up?

Then you have the DNA evidence. We have degraded DNA from nearly all of the crime scenes, so we have been told. We have Kerri, living in Michigan, getting police officers knocking at her door asking for a voluntary giving up of her DNA, we don't know really how that was obtained, but we do know that her DNA was a match along with I'm sure the entire Rader family to some of the crime scenes. Now, if the DNA from the crime scenes is so degraded that it can't be used, and DNA wasn't known back then, then where are they getting a comparison? And isn't it also safe to assume that if the entire Rader family's DNA matched the crime scenes that they would then need to do a closer comparison of DNA now to Dennis Rader himself? But then what are they compairing it to exactly?

Now we have Dennis Rader doing many jobs over the years, from selling ADT Security Systems, to a dog catcher from Park City. We have seen many photos from all of those times in his life, and in none of them does he have blonde hair, sporting a mustache or his hair appearing to be long and shaggy, instead he's rather balding even in the 70's. So what happened to all those eye witnesses that saw a dark skinned male, who saw blonde hair, who saw a man with a mustache, or who saw a man with shaggy hair?

There is more, but for now, this is what I have, and I will be adding more things as I go along.

[LadyBlue]

We also have BTK whoever he may be taking credit in letters to LE of the Otero murders, Nancy Fox, Shirley Vian but what we don't have is him taking credit for the Bright murder. Why is that? Either the real BTK didn't do this murder, or he didn't want to take credit for it because he bungled the job. I can't see the real BTK bungling the job, can you? He certainly didn't bungle the first one and there were 4 people involved. Many have said, ah yes but he held a gun to one of the parents head or the childrens head and any parent would do whatever they needed to do to protect the family. While I'm all for this explanation, why then in the Bright murders, with the same weapon displayed was Kevin able to grab BTK's gun? What did he do, have another moment of stupid? Or wasn't this the REAL BTK?

Then we have Kevin Bright, who was shot in the head by BTK, saying that he tried covering up the head of the man shown to him in the photo, which we all know was Dennis Rader, then covering the chin, then trying to see if the eyes were the ones that he remembered seeing, but still Kevin couldn't say whether or not the man that had killed his sister, and almost killed him was indeed Dennis Rader. I find this odd, because if I had been staring into the eyes of my murderer, that's something that I wouldn't EVER forget, the eyes, the windows to the soul, or to evil in BTK's case.

Then you have the "this is my life" story thing that LE put out to the public, asking anyone if they know this man. We know that almost all of it doesn't at all fit to Dennis Rader. So do we just assume he lied, or do we look deeper and find out who exactly these things do match up to? I say we look deeper.

The last thing, unless I think of other things, is PJ Wyatt Class Schedule. LE had asked PJ Wyatt back in the 70's if she knew anything in the "story of my life letter", that possibly matched one of her own students. She apparently not only gave LE her class schedule, but assisted them in trying to figure out who it would have been that she taught that could have been BTK. Apparently they didn't come up with anyone, or they over looked the obvious, but I've read that Dennis Rader's name kept popping up in several places that they had been delving into, so if this is true, and he was cleared back then, what's different today?