Could There Have Been Someone Other Than BTK?

[LadyBlue]

I have said this before and so I'll say it again. I have thought that there may be someone else involved in this besides Dennis Rader, and until he gives up who it is, if there is indeed someone else I'll continue to wonder and research the possibility. Someone on AMW posted this, and so my theory is still alive.

southrngr1

There is a guy that lives in a town north of Wichita that has been of keen interest for several months. His name is Bill. I will save all the drama, but what cought my attention on this board is that there is suspicion that he did not work alone and that a relative or someone could be involved.

This Bill is a wealthy weirdo and he had a storage area/building that went for sale on the sheriff auction. Well, inside, there was a type writer, a police badge with the nane Bill Thomas Killman, (a retired police officer) several videos of women, (none that noone knew) and they were drinking and doing that 70's thing with Bill and an unidentified man who was running this video.

The FBI and KBI have taken this guys DNA and also searched the building with a forensics team. It is my understanding that the items found are very critical to the case but I still have not heard what the connection is to Mr. Bill.

This is the name of a deceased and retired Police Officer. That is weird. Anyway, I heard about the videos that were taken and it is really creepy, these two guys out in the woods partying with these two guys, one we know, the other is a mystery (maybe Dennis Rader) and you would not believe the things they seized out of this building.

It is my understanding that this Bill lives out of state with his mother, and the building has been vacant for over a decade, plus he forgot to pay property taxes, so bye bye building and we had friends who bought it for next to nothing and THEN, they were cleaning it out and realized what they had.

They also have a restraining order against this guy because he freaked when he learned that it had been sold and came straight back to Kansas, tried to take his things out of the building, etc. They stopped him with a city order, but he was livid and adamant that he be able to take his personal possessions, the owners let him take a few things before the FBI got there because he came in with threats and was very violent.

I guess he is a real flaming creep. Real eccentric. This Dennis Rader looks like a YEEHAW. I can't picture him writing poetry, but more like the muscle with the madness.

Okay, here goes, the guy Bill is not a cop at all. He is a little rich boy that grew up to be a mixed up man with too much time and money on his hands. He is the town weirdo that moved to Florida. Actually, the only reason he came back was to get the things out of storage before the new owners or cops did.

To his surprise the FBI met him first. Here is what I know, he is the grandson of a major (Think BIG) aircraft company. I need to double check with my family before I pass this out. He also had an address book that was seized and it was not your typical address book...sue...bob...tom...no no no it was Congressman This and CEO That and FBI Specialist Who.

This address book is the Who's Who of law enforcement and gov. here in Kansas. It is really scary if this guy and his family are connected and are in bed with these type of people.

No it is not Boeing. This is commmercial airlines. I want to double check to get my info together. These people are very very wealthy. This son of theirs is just the black sheep but I can really see him being involved. I just want to know for my own knowledge if anyone know who the Raders are realted to? What are other family names? I want to start there first but then I will move on to friends.

[LadyBlue]

The Bill I am referring to has property here in Wichita as well and also attended WSU. Again, family friends have a restraining order against this guy. If he (Dennis Rader) talks this guy is a flight risk.

I know that the KBI and FBI are already aware of this and I don't know where he is right now. I will check tomorrow when my sources are awake and not put anything out there that is not 100% accurate. It is just a point and lead to ponder.

I have a curious mind, a great source and insomnia. I just feel like our hands are kinda tied (No pun intended) until this guy Rader starts talking because I seriously doubt he was alone in this.

First of all the badge was a key point of interest because police have always assumed that he gained access to the homes by flashing a police badge and pretending to be a cop.

The badge in question was taken, or whatever from a cop that died. Obviously he will not need it anymore and the Bill who had it in his posession just happens to share the same first name. THEN the punch to this is BTK, the serial killer, (are you following?) used the name on this badge as his return address on a letter to KAKE TV. That is why it was taken into custody, quesiton being princess, why does this guy in Pratt Kansas have a badge with that name on it?

[LadyBlue]

1983 new investigation on the BTK is opened by a group known as "The Ghostbusters," who spends three years employing new techniques including serology testing, and computer database searches.

As I'm watching CNN with Larry King, Beatty said that Chief Richard LaMunyon said during the time that Ghostbusters was formed, that he believed and still believes that their could have been more than just BTK involved with these deaths. He said that because in some of the killings, because of the vehicles that were taken and dropped off, some of them in rather remote areas, they LaMunyon believed that someone would have had to pick BTK up from these locations, or at least have been involved in some way. BTK would have had to have been taken to the muder sites, or would have had to have someone drive him home or to somewhere after he planted the murder victims car. It totally makes sense to me.

I'm now searching to find anywhere where LaMunyon says this, and when and if I find it, I will post the link.

Former Wichita Police Chief Richard LaMunyon said his detectives did consider geography in the 1980s when they reopened the BTK case under a team known as the Ghostbusters.

The group had a list of men who lived near the crime scenes, as well as several similar lists. One contained names of men enrolled in a Wichita State University class that used a textbook containing a nursery rhyme upon which BTK patterned a poem he sent to The Wichita Eagle.

The Ghostbusters set out to eliminate everyone on the lists, using DNA testing when necessary. The group was eventually disbanded without identifying BTK.

"We developed a list of those individuals who fit the race and fit the age category," LaMunyon said. "How successful we were in getting them all, I can't answer that.

[jimamw]

Back sometime I don't know if it was Jan or dec there was a house fire in which the parents and the son died his name was Larry Anderson!I have been trying to find this article and can't remember which site it was on it was a small article so it is going to take soem time
bblTEXTalready tried ksn and kake.

[LadyBlue]

This is the article that I've been looking for now for a week, finally found it today

[glow=red,2,300]Letter May Be From Otero Killer[/glow]
December 12, 1974

A letter, in which the writer says he killed four members of the Joseph Otero family, was written by the
killer or by someone with intimate knowledge of the murders, according to Wichita Police Chief Floyd
Hannon.

The letter, received by police sometime in October through the Wichita Eagle-Beacon Secret Witness
program, appeared in the Wednesday edition of the Wichita Sun. The letter indicated the writer had a
monster in his brain which drove him to the Otero killings and would force him to kill again.

In the letter, the writer says he will continue to kill.

Hannon, in a hastily called news conference Wednesday, denounced the release of the letter but said
his department thinks the letter writer could be a suspect in the murders.

“The writer of the letter would have had to be inside the house when the crime was committed or
participated in the crime,” Hannon said.

“We feel this man has intimate knowledge of the Otero thing. We feel this (the letter) is from the
person who committed the offense.”

Otero, 38; his wife, Julie, 34; their daughter Josephine, 11, and a son, Joseph Jr., 9, were found in
their home Jan. 16 by three Otero children upon their return from school.

The writer signed the letter only with the initials B.T.K.

“I think we’ve taken one hell of a risk (with release of the letter),” Hannon said. “He might have to go
out and commit this offense again to prove he committed this (Otero) offense.”

Questioned by a reporter as to what the man might do now, Hannon replied: “You’re working on
assumption and theory. I could not guess what might happen.”

Hannon asked the letter writer to contact police or some other agency which would contact police.
“He is a sick man who needs help,” said Hannon. “He should surrender to authorities.

“He is the type of man society would like to help, especially this department,” Hannon said.

“The man will not be harmed in any way. No way are we going to harm this man or allow anyone
else to harm him.”

A personality profile of the writer was compiled by nearly 30 doctors in Kansas, including most of
the psychiatrists in Wichita, who analyzed copies of the letter.

“All doctors basically felt we’re dealing with a very sick man. The man is mentally disturbed and
has a great problem,” Hannon said.

“We are looking for a man who had a fetish for bondage. His reaction sexually is to be bound or
bind other people.”

The Otero murders were sexually related, Hannon said, and apparently were not connected to other
recent unsolved murders, all which Hannon said are drug related.

The writer, doctors theorized, is small in stature. They said he probably has a limited education in
the fields in engineering, bookkeeping of accounting. This conclusion by physicians was based on
analysis of marking used for corrections in the letter, Hannon said.

The letter said only one man was involved in the Otero slayings. Hannon said after police re-enacted
the crime that one man could have committed the murders, although that is improbable.

“It’s rather hard to predict if one could, with a minimal amount of subduing (victims)… kill all the
people,” the chief said.

Hannon attempted to keep the letter under a closed-door policy to ward off public hysteria, to keep
from motivating the writer into committing more murders and to tighten publicity releases on the
already well-publicized murders, he said.

“When the department started approaching other people for analyses on the letter, we started losing
our closed door policy.” Hannon said.

“We fairly well know (who leaked the letter),” the chief said, adding that the department does not
intend to make an issue of it.

Release of the letter and previous publicity has hampered investigation, the chief said.

“Whenever we do have a man confess to this, we can go to our clips and find his information was
in the news,” Hannon said.

“It’s extremely hard for us to know when the person tells the truth or does not tell the truth,”
when he divulges information, Hannon said.

“There were some things in the letter the news media did not know, even things we did not know,”
Hannon said.

Police received the letter through The Eagle-Beacon Secret Witness program, headed by community
relations director Don Granger.

“Don Granger should be commended,” Hannon said. “Don had a scoop here but did not demand to
see the letter; and it was even through Secret Witness that we were able to see the letter.”

Granger, upon police request, in an Oct. 31 column in the Beacon addressed a plea directly to B.T.K.
But no response was received from the letter writer.

Police requested Granger write the column after an advertisement in the Eagle-Beacon personal column in classified advertising section also failed to get a response.

Investigation of the Otero slayings has been a long process of tracking down leads which have led
police to Puerto Rico and South America. More than 20,000 man hours have been expended in the
course of the investigation.

Several people have confessed to the slayings, but after investigation, were discounted as likely suspects.

Hannon said two detectives will work full time on new leads take from the letter.

[jimamw]

Seems like at the time they were convinced it was more than 1 person.
Just had a thought put it on amw site PJ could stand for his brothers Paul and Jeffery?I don't know that is a stretch but someone said that the one brother was arrested for a sex crime I think.can't find it and I have looked all over for the Larry anderson hosue fire report and can't find it,odd.

[LadyBlue]

Just one more thought on this before I shut up. Another reason that I don't think he committed the Otero muders himself, is, look at the Kathryn, Kevin Bright murder and escape for instance, which by the way Dennis didn't want to take credit for, but obviously did when he was arrested.

He had Kevin tie up his sister, then Dennis tied up Kevin, but Kevin was able to get the restraints off his hands, enough to be able to grab BTK's gun away from him, and then get up and run out the door once BTK was with Kevin's sister. And that's just two people and he f***ed up, what about 4 people and all with Judo experience?

[jimamw]

I find it odd that someone named Btk would screw up tying someone up!lHelllooo bind is in his name!!lol
I don't know if he did confess to the Bright murder at first they said he confessed to SIX then they said he has admitted to 10!That could be any ten people not necessarily the bright one.Kevin Bright siad he wants to see and hear him talk first,I found it odd when Larry King asked him if Rader was the one he saw Bright said he couldn';t be sure?

[LadyBlue]

I don't know Jim, Kathryn Bright was in the 10 people that the judge read the other day live on television, so he obviously confessed to at least those 10 because after the judge read them off and asked Rader if he understood all the charges, his answer, was "THAT'S CORRECT". LOL, I do find that humorous now.

[jimamw]

See the thing that bothers me about this is he said Shirley Wegerle was the best one right?if this is the only scene they were able to get good dna from who's to say that he is responsible for all of them?I want his brothers dna checked also wouldn't their's also match since they are brothers?Why didn't they test the brother when they had him i for questioning he day they picked up Dennis.I wrote over on AMW that I heard soem weiird things about the brother such as wandering around the neighborhood at 3 and 4 in the morning looking in peoples windows,and just acting odd,I'm not sure of this but I think this is the brother that was accused of a sex crime or mayeb being a peeping tom.
Gawd what was going on in that household while these boys were growing up?!

[jimamw]

Oh I know you will find this story interesting!


www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12441581%255E28737,00.html


especially about the brother's moustache!!!!l

[LadyBlue]

Ohhhhh My heavenly days, what an article, and don't tell me that Beattie doesn't read what I'm saying in AMW when he said this, just exactly like I did it my post in the forum: "Anyway you slice it, the car is a problem and it just doesn't add up," Beattie says from his Wichita home. "What did Rader do - walk home? That would have been way too risky for someone always so careful. The obvious answer is that he was picked up by someone else who was involved or someone who knew what was going on."

According to Beattie, Allen Stewart, former captain of the Wichita homicide investigation unit, known as the Ghostbusters, also believes in the second man theory. Stewart died in 1998 but Beattie has had access to his personal diaries and has spoken with members of his family.

"Stewart went to his grave thinking BTK had to be two people," Beattie says. "And a lot of the old retired detectives who worked on the case over the years agree with him."

But at the Sedgwick County district attorney's office, where the case against Rader is being prepared for trial, the accomplice theory is dismissed almost as nonsense

But if the Ghostbusters are still exploring the accomplice theory - and yesterday they were not saying one way or the other - a likely target of inquiries would be Rader's family.

And holy crap, yes Jim, see what I've been saying, thank you for finding this article!!

In his one interview this week Jeff Rader, a plumber who is nine years younger than his now-infamous brother and who wears a big Milat-style moustache, told The Wichita Eagle such abuse never happened.

[jimamw]

Notice what time this was written?I had a problem sleeping last night after tallking to Johnamw about a few things was really surprised to see this article also. Now I want to knw what color of hair he has!!!!

[LadyBlue]

I know, and I'd like to know that myself. I had to literally force myself to sleep last night, and it wasn't easy because I was still wide awake at around 4:00 thinking about it all.

[LadyBlue]

I'm going to put these other articles that I found in here also, because I think they are really good to have to look back on. I put them in AMW also, but I think they need to be here as well.

A few more things to ponder, because LE now has almost totally disreguarded EVERYTHING that has ever been said about the murders here are just a few examples:

The Wichita Eagle April 5, 1974
(no reporter name given)

A 20-year-old Wichita woman died Thursday night of stab wounds inflicted by an intruder who shot her
19-year-old brother in the head.

Kathryn Bright, 3217 E 13th, died at Wesley Medical Center shortly after 7 p.m. She had been stabbed
several times in the abdomen.

Kevin Bright, Valley Center, was listed in critical condition in the Wesley intensive care unit following surgery.

Police said the two went to Kathryn's East 13th Street residence about 2 p.m. and discovered an intruder
in the back bedroom.

The man told them he would not hurt them but he wanted money and their car to go to New York, Kevin
told officers.

He forced Kevin to tie his sister to a chair and then took him to another room.

Police Col. Jack Bruce said Kevin was shot when he began struggling with the prowler because he was
being choked by the man's attempt to bind him.

After being wounded, Kevin escaped from the house, and caught the attention of a motorist.

"I've been shot. There's a guy in the house doing a job on my sister," he said.

One of the two occupants of the car took Kevin to the hospital while the other telephoned police.

When officers arrived they found Miss Bright unconscious on the living room floor.

The suspect was described as a white male, about 25 years old, 5 feet 11 inches tall and weighing 180
pounds. He had a moustache and at the time of his assault was wearing an orange shirt, orange windbreaker, and black stocking cap.

The Wichita Beacon
April 5, 1974
By Glenda Holder

The victims of a robbery Thursday afternoon, a 20-year-old woman who was fatally stabbed and
her 19-year-old brother who was shot in the head, were employees of the Coleman Co., as were victims
of two other recent violent crimes.

Kathryn D. Bright, died about five hours after she was stabbed three times in the abdomen by the intruder
in her home at 3217 E. 13th.

Kevin Bright, who accompanied his sister to her home, received two gunshot wounds to the head after
he opposed the man. He was listed in serious condition at Wesley Medical Center today.

Mrs. Joseph Ortero, who along with Kathryn became an employee of the company in August 1973 and was
still employed by the firm.
Kevin, of Valley Center, began working for Coleman in March 1973 and quit in June to take a vacation.

Records show he was rehired to do the same job in July and quit in August.

Mrs. Joseph Otero, who along with three other members of her family were brutally slain Jan. 15, was
employed at Coleman as an assembler from the middle of December to the first part of January. Miss

Bright had worked as an assembler since March 11. Prior to that time she had worked as a brazer.

A supervisor of assembly, Michael L. Williams, 26, was shot in the abdomen Jan. 12 by two unknown

persons who apparently were attempting to rob him at him home in 4140 N. Battin. He was shot when

the assailants fired shotgun blasts through the door.

On March 28 someone broke into Williams' home and took a rifle and a radio. When laboratory

investigators arrived at the scene, they were unable to obtain fingerprints because Williams had touched

the surface the burglar had touched.

Police Chief Floyd Hannon is the only officer issuing statements concerning the Thursday homicide.

However, he was attending a class this morning and could not be contacted about the case or any possible

connection with the Otero or Williams incidents.

Drugs also have been mentioned in the Williams and Otero cases, but neither police nor sheriff's

officers, who are investigating the Williams shooting, have been able to rule out or confirm this possibility.

The Beacon learned that a quantity of unknown drugs was found by police in the Bright home.

The killer apparently broke a glass in the backdoor of the east Wichita residence and waited in a backroom

for Kathryn and Kevin.
The two returned to the residence about 2 p.m. and were confronted by the man, police at the scene said.

He allegedly told the couple that he wanted money and their car to go to New York and that he did

not want to hurt them.

However, he forced Kevin to tie his sister to a chair and then took Kevin to another room, where

he attempted to bind him.

The assailant had a cord of some type around Kevin\rquote s neck and was tightening it when Kevin

fought and was shot twice in the head with a .22-caliber automatic pistol.

Bright was able to escape and flagged down a passing vehicle. One person in the car took him to

the hospital while the other summoned police.

Kathryn was unconscious when officers arrived and died following surgery.

Police are continuing their investigation into the case and also the Otero murders.

In the Bright case, they are searching for a white male, 5-foot-11 and about 25 years old. At the time

of the crime, he was wearing a black stocking cap and an orange shirt and jacket.

The Wichita Beacon
April 8, 1974
(no reporter name given)

Police Chief Floyd Hannon said today there is no connection between the Jan. 15 murders of the
Joseph Otero family and a quadruple murder last week in Portland, Ore.

Hannon also told reporters at City Hall a remark by an officer last week connecting the Otero murders
and other incidents to the Coleman Co. should not have been made.

The remark resulted in a story relating employment at Coleman by Mrs. Otero; Kathryn Bright,
who was stabbed to death Thursday, and Michael L. Williams, who was shot and wounded Jan. 12.

Hannon said any innuendo a place of business is involved in the drug traffic should not have been made.

Police have been investigating a possible connection between the violence and drug trafficking.

A story in The Wichita Beacon, however, did not actually connect the Coleman Co. to the incidents
but merely showed the victims had been employed there where they may have developed common acquaintances.

Hannon said today there had been about 12 cases of violence since November that also may be connected.

He said the victims of those represent a cross-section of the community - " so we can't look at Coleman."

Hannon did not comment further on why the Portland connection has been eliminated.

That crime resulted in the deaths of Howard A. Weeks, his wife, Arlene, and two boys for whom
they babysat.

As in the Otero murders, the crime took place in early morning daylight at the home and the victims
were bound and gagged similarly. Also, a description of a suspect seen leaving the Week's home
was similar to a description of a suspect seen leaving the Otero home.

[LadyBlue]

The Wichita Eagle
December 11, 1978
(no reporter name given)

The police are searching for a man seen using a pay phone in connection with the killing Friday of Nancy
Fox, 25, who was found strangled in her home at 843 S. Pershing.

Detective Capt. Al Thimmesch said Saturday that a woman had told the police she had seen a man using
a pay phone outside Organ's Market, 527 E. Central.

He said the police would follow up on the witness's information Monday because they did not have enough
manpower to follow the lead before then.

The police received a phone call at 8:20 a.m. Friday saying there had been a homicide at Fox's apartment.
The police say they think the caller was a white male in his 20s, but Thimmesch did not say how the
police had determined the man's race and age.

Thimmesch said a dispatcher had traced the call to an outside pay phone at the market, on the
southwest corner of Central and St. Francis.\line\line Progress on the investigation is slow, Thimmesch
said Saturday.

Thimmesch said he saw no link between the slaying of Fox and the unsolved strangling death of Shirley
Vian, 26, who was found March 17 by her children in their home at 1311 S. Hydraulic.

Fox was found strangled, lying face down on her bed, the police said. She was partly nude and her
hands and feet were bound behind her back with nylon stockings. It appeared she had been strangled
with a stocking, the police said.

An autopsy Friday revealed no evidence that Fox had been sexually assaulted.

Vian was found strangled, lying face down on her bed, the police said at the time. Her nude body was
bound hand and foot. There was a plastic garment bag over her head and a venetian blind cord around
her neck, the police said.

An autopsy revealed no evidence that Vian had been sexually assaulted.

He said Vian's killer had left no clues. No clues were left in the Fox killing, either, he said. "None I
could comment on, anyway," he said.

[LadyBlue]

Wichitaboy

1.) Julie Otero (DOD 01-15-74) and Kathryn Bright (DOD 04-04-74) worked on the same assembly line at Coleman.

2.) Michael Williams the supervisor from the same assembly line at Coleman was shot 4 days prior to the Otero murders.

3.) Michael Williams’s father was head of personnel at Coleman. He worked in the Human Resources Department, which was located at New York and Central. (Approximately 1500 E Central)

4.) Sherry Baker a 23 year old WSU student was murdered 11-12-74 at 603 New York. This is one of the top three cold cases that are similar to BTK.

5.) 603 New York is only a block away from the Coleman Human Resources Department.

6.) The Coleman factory at 2nd and St Francis is only 2 blocks from where BTK made the telephone call notifying police about Nancy Fox. The Coleman Human Resources Department is only 8 blocks away from the telephone.

[LadyBlue]

Posted on Tue, Mar. 01, 2005
[glow=red,2,300]Brother told police: 'You got the wrong guy'[/glow]
He can't believe his brother did it.

No one in the family can believe it. But if he did it, Jeff Rader said, "may God have mercy on his soul."

Jeff Rader came to the door Monday and said he never closely followed the news about the BTK killings. He never paid much attention.

He first knew something was up with the family Friday afternoon, when two Wichita police detectives visited him at the plumbing business where he works.

They refused to tell him anything except that it was a criminal investigation. They took him to City Hall, he said. They put him in a room, and they and an FBI agent began asking questions.

"The first questions were, who's your mother, your brothers, your grandparents and so on," Jeff Rader said. "Then they asked: Does your brother have a fascination with trains?

"Not that I know of," Jeff Rader told them. "But I do. I used to play on trains at the train yard when I was a kid. I love trains."

The detectives sat there.

"And then one of them just couldn't hold back any longer," Rader said. "He said, 'Your brother is BTK.' "

"I laughed at them," Jeff Rader said.

"I said, 'NO WAY. You got the wrong guy.' "

"But they just shook their heads. And one of them said, 'We're sure.' "

Jeff Rader told this story from the front porch of his mother's neat, well-kept, small home in Park City.

He'd stepped out, folded his big arms across his blue denim bib overall chest.

He told the newspaper people that they could not come in to see his mother, Dorthea.

"It's too hard on my mother," he said. "And you'll get the dogs to yapping. But I'll talk with you for a minute."

He spoke politely.

"I don't think my brother is BTK," he said. "But if he is -- if that's the truth -- then let the truth be the truth. And may God have mercy on his soul."

The family never saw any sign that his brother could be a killer, he said. He still loves his brother, and so does his mother.

"My mother still can't believe it," he said. "She's still very much in denial. And so am I. But maybe, with me, acceptance is starting to creep in."

Inside the house, he said, were other family members, and his mother, Dennis Rader's mother, 79.

She's frail, he said.

"She falls down once in a while. Doctors think she might have water on the brain."

After police announced Saturday that Dennis Rader is a suspect in the BTK serial killings, people started making prank phone calls to harass his mother, Jeff Rader said.

He rolled his eyes.

"There are a lot of sick people out there," he said. "The sort who want to kick someone when they're down. They need to know that my mother is human, too."

Police have denied requests from him and his mother to go see Dennis in jail, he said. No one in the family has talked to his brother since the arrest.

Jeff Rader is a plumber, 50, nine years younger. Unlike his balding older brother, he's got a full head of hair, brown and curly.

He wears a huge, walrus mustache touched with gray. He's got blue eyes, big shoulders, a big chest and a bit of a big belly pooching out the front end of his faded blue denim bibs.

He spoke politely, though he said he's grown tired of television broadcasts that have put out errors and false speculation about the family.

No one in the family turned Dennis in, for example, he said.

The four brothers (Dennis is the eldest) grew up with a loving mother and a tough but decent father, he said.

Their father, William Rader, was a former Marine, a God-fearing man, strict but not unreasonable. He died in 1996.

"All four boys became Boy Scouts," Jeff Rader said. "We were a normal family. The boys all liked to be outdoors, go for hikes. We loved to hunt and fish."

There was no trouble in the family, no abuse, he said.

He rolled his eyes.

The FBI agent asked him whether he or any of the boys had been sexually abused by their father, he said.

"I told them no," he said. "And that's the truth." The same agent asked whether he had ever been in trouble.

"I looked at him and asked how come he was asking me that, considering that he probably had already found out everything under the sun about me before he talked to me," Rader said. "He laughed, and said, well, yeah, we already did."

Twice, Jeff Rader opened the door to the house and spoke to people inside, asking them to stir a Mexican dish he'd put on the stove.

"I'm talking to you," he said to a reporter with a grin. "But I'm also doing all the cooking here."

With nine years between them, he did not spend a lot of time with his brother. And Dennis didn't want him around him at times when they were younger, he said.

"But that was common in that an older brother never wants a younger brother around to tell on him," Jeff Rader said.

He said his brother was a good kid.

"I wasn't," Jeff said.

"I was a hell-raiser. But Dennis wasn't."

They were not close in recent years. It was just a matter of living busy lives, he said.

The brothers gathered with their mother at Thanksgiving, at Christmas. They enjoyed each other's company when they got together.

Dennis and his wife, Paula, came to this house often to look after his mother, Jeff said. His brother often took the lead on that, driving their mother to the doctor when needed.

When the January ice storm knocked out power to tens of thousands of people, Jeff said, Dennis and his wife came over and stayed with his mother for a week, until power was restored to their house.

The family never had a clue, he repeated.

They grew up having fun, he said. "We had a loving mother, and a loving father."

He said both those parents tried to teach them to be religious.

And to know the difference between right and wrong.

[jimamw]

Well first off reading that line about the police not having enough man power to go and get a description from that woman is just unconscienable what the hell?!!!
The desrciption of the brother is scary also that whole thing like John said about stirring the food while talking about his murderous brother is just goofy!Something about how smooth this guy seems sends my hinky meter up!lol

[LadyBlue]

Jim read this:

PapaSmirf just wrote in AMW:

Why don't you knock it off. I am here to expose the government and their lies. They want you to think that BTK is captured. BTK is still out there and he is still killing. I will continue until I'm dead. And there is nothing you can to about it. I'd like Steve to come here and do something about it. He knows what I am saying is right. He knows I'm exposing the truth

[jimamw]

What does this guy know?He seems awfully sure of himself,everytime he responds to someone it seems as if there is alot of anger there.
I would like to have a calm conversation with him but he seems incapable of it.

[LadyBlue]

I've found out what that was all about, and he said that he was telling a lie and just felt like bugging all of us. So, since I now know who he is, I'll watch the other poster and see just what happens from here.

I'm so angry right now over that I can't tell you, and I'm just plain angry tonight because of the entire BTK thing. I'm sick and tired of LE saying that there are to be no leaks, I'm sick and tired of not getting any information, I think that LE and everyone else who wants no leaks aren't trying at all to protect the citizens of Wichita, they don't a rats patootie about them, or they would be giving information to make them feel more secure that the right man has been captured and they can't even do that.

We can read article after article that has different views on everything from DR's middle name being wrong, to his height anywhere from 5'4 to 5'11, we can read articles from the 70's that don't match anything that DR is or was. And then we have the many articles about how DNA was taken from Kerri Rader, there are at least 4 different article and none the same.

What the hell is all this about exactly??

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]The Murders Of People In Homes--Serial Killer In Wichita[/glow]
Nov. 12, 1974: Sherry Baker, 23, a Wichita State University student, was found stabbed to death in her apartment at 603 New York. Her hands were tied behind her back with a coiled telephone cord, and she was stabbed with a pair of scissors. There was no sign of forced entry.

Police have said a copy of a BTK letter came from a copy machine at WSU.

June 29, 1985: Linda Shawn Casey, 31, another WSU student, was found dead on the bedroom floor of her home at 356 N. Spruce. She had been bound, beaten, sexually assaulted and stabbed repeatedly.

June 6, 1987: Hattie Smith, 54, was found dead by her husband when he returned to the couple's home at 3193 S. Clifton. Her nude body was bound hand and foot with materials that came from the house. Police said she was beaten, strangled and drowned in the bathtub. There were no signs of forced entry.

Oct. 2, 1989: Krista Martin, 20, was found beaten to death on the couch in her apartment at 506 E. Osage. The 1987 Campus High School graduate had been struck in the back of the head with a blunt object.

Sept. 12, 1996: Cherie Fox, 16, was found shot to death in an apartment she shared with her father at 2150 N. Meridian.

May 11, 1997: Deanna Law, 53, was found strangled in her home at 1423 S. Market. She was sexually assaulted, and her nude body was found in the bathtub. A neighbor was charged with second-degree murder, but the charge was dropped after his lawyer contended that he faked the confession.

June 4, 2002: Dorothy Slaughter, 86, was beaten along with her husband at their home in the 2000 block of South Pershing Avenue. She died two weeks later; her husband survived the attack. Neighbors became suspicious after noticing that a boarded-up basement window had been opened, and that the Slaughters' side door was ajar. Relatives said the phone line was cut and the only thing missing was a set of car keys.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]The Transported Muders--Serial Killer In Wichita[/glow]
Nov. 26, 1977: Denise Rathbun, 26, a mother of two, was last seen pushing a baby carriage full of wet laundry to a coin-operated laundry at Central and Edgemoor. Her body was found two weeks later in a frozen creek in Harvey County. An autopsy showed she had died of drowning and exposure.

Oct. 31, 1987: Shannon Olson, 15, left her home in the 1100 block of South Hydraulic shortly after 11 p.m., saying she was going to run an errand. Two fishermen found her nude body floating in an old sand pit at 33rd and Hillside the next day. Her hands were tied behind her back with her bra.

Aug. 16, 1993: Kristi Hatfield, 25, was found dead in a field in the 300 block of East 36th Street South after [leaving ]her South Broadway house to run an errand. She died from a blow to the back of the head.

Oct. 30, 1996: Avanthea Williams, 20, was found dead in an empty apartment building at 10th and Minnesota. Her body was thought to have been in the building for two months.

[LadyBlue]

[glow=red,2,300]The Fire Starter Murder[/glow]
Oct. 25, 1980: Barbara A. Smith, 37, was found beaten to death in her home at 1151 S. Waverly. There was no sign of forced entry. The killer set two small fires in the kitchen that burned themselves out.